April 12, 2022

#023: Diversity In The Workplace With Yvan Demosthenes

Hosted by George Randle

As a business owner, you need to be fully committed to workplace diversity. Most companies overlook very talented people because they’re not fully committed to a diversity strategy. Join George Randle as he talks to Yvan Demosthenes about the true definition of diversity. Yvan is the CEO of HamiltonDemo, a certified veteran-owned company that sources game-changing talent. He believes that every company needs a diversity strategy. Because if you don’t, you are cutting off 40% of the talent pool from your potential pipeline. Learn all you need to know about talent acquisition, cultivation, and diversity today.

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Diversity In The Workplace With Yvan Demosthenes

We are going to tackle an absolutely critical topic and we have such a great guest. He even counseled me, so I made sure that I pronounced his name correctly. He said that if I do it correctly, I’m going to be well respected by the Haitian population., which is a group that I’m quite fond of. Yvan Demosthenes. Stand by for great advice on how he achieved this magnificent career and has been making an impact in talent, specifically with diversity.

Welcome to the show. I probably did not get it exactly right, but I will give it a shot sometime later, but thank you so much for joining us on the show. I appreciate it.

It is my pleasure, George, and your reader should know. I do not know if we have the opportunity, but little did I know that you were already well entrenched in the Haitian community long before we got together. It might not be too far to say that there are people carrying your name’s sake because of the wonderful work that you have done within the Haitian community. On behalf of my fellow countrymen, thank you so much.

I will tell you that I, unfortunately, being a White guy of Irish descent, I was invited to many meals of some amazing food, but I had to recalibrate what the word hot and spicy meant. It’s delicious food and you do not want to be insulting, but there were some things they made for me that I swear to God, I thought my head was a volcano. That was some seriously great food, but I lost all feeling from my shoulders up. It was crazy.

One thing I love about hot food is there is a euphoric experience when you have some hot food that is over your level of threshold. It could be deadly and euphoric.

I play soccer a lot. I have a couple of guys from Nigeria and the Ivory Coast that are amazing strikers and footballers. They brought me food and I said, “I have had some Haitian spicy food.” I meant it as a compliment. I did not mean that as a challenge. I went through this whole torture session again because they were like, “No.” I don’t know what they did, but it was their great satisfaction to put me to the test and see how much I could tolerate. I sweated more eating the food than I did out on the soccer pit.

I went through your bio. It’s impossible for me to ever do it justice. You and I both know what we put up on LinkedIn is like, “Here are the broad brushstrokes.” Tell us about your career and bring us up to speed because I know you get your own gig now. We will then dig into some of those questions as we go along.

I was born in Haiti. Fast forward, with my parents coming to America and living in New York in the first ten years of my life. We moved to, of all places, Lima, Ohio, which is not only the antithesis of New York, but those that know Lima will tell you that it is truly the center of the universe. All things revolve around Lima. If you do not know, it is because you don’t know yet. I’m here to tell you. It’s fascinating.

That is because most New Yorkers have never been to Lima, Ohio. After being in Lima, you realize there is no corner of the world or universe where there is not some connection to Lima, Ohio. It’s one of the most fascinating things I have ever seen in my whole life. I have been here in Cincinnati, on and off, since I started school at the University of Cincinnati with the phenomenal Bearcats.

I knew you would do the Bearcats, but Joe Burrow embarrassed my Chiefs and interrupted their path to the Super Bowl. I did forget. We have to put Bengals talk off-limits.

I wouldn’t say that Joe embarrassed your Chiefs. Joe is a great guy and Team Mahomes is phenomenal. This was probably the best series of playoff games in the NFL that I have ever seen and witnessed. It is the two titans going at it. It was a joy and pleasure to watch.

It’s going to be that way for years to come for those two. Tell us about the Bearcats.

I got myself into the arena of sales after college. Shortly after experiencing some great things in the IT industry on an enterprise level, I went and got my MBA, and as chance would have it, a friend introduced me to the manager at CareerBuilder. That was around 2005. I got into the space of human capital. George, if you remember, Y2K was still fresh in people’s minds. The end of the world did not come like we all thought. Clearly, Prince was right because we partied like it was 1999 and woke up the next day.

Do you know how many people that are reading that probably don’t know that song? I appreciate the reference.

Companies today put all of their efforts into one bucket and forget about it. They're being precise rather than trying to cover as much space. Click To Tweet

I don’t believe you. Everybody knows that song. That can’t possibly be true. I’ll keep my fingers crossed. Hopefully, I’m right. It was an interesting time because Corporate America was embarking on a new age. People in HR were using email for the first time and they were also creating something that had never been before on this brand new thing called the internet.

These websites had career sites where you can put your jobs on a career site. It was interesting, to say the least. A lot of these talent acquisitions, specialists and leaders thought all their problems were solved. They thought they would never have to struggle to attract talent ever again and teach them how to integrate from their career site to these job boards and to their applicant tracking system. I have got a funny story to share with you, which some people may think is funny or not true, but it did happen.

We would consult a lot and one client had many questions about their applicant tracking system once someone hit apply that we printed out the questions and we could roll the questions across the room. It was not uncommon for companies that their first question when you hit the apply button was, “What is your Social Security Number?”

There was a lot of consulting. The internet was new. It was a great place. CareerBuilder showed me a lot. It was a great sales environment. They did a great job in rewarding sales success, creating an environment and culture where even the receptionist was responsible for helping with sales. If a person with my position as a salesperson went to the receptionist and asked for help, she had to drop everything that she was doing to assist me with the sale. 2005 is when I got into the space.

You were more on the sales side. Did you have that light bulb go off in your head and say, “I’m going to go ahead and let my dominant masochistic gene come out and get into talent?” I say that because I joke that anybody that has been in the talent space, HR and talent acquisition, if you take the 23andMe test, there is a dominant gene in there that says, “I love to be tortured.”

For some reason, bizarrely, we thrive in it. When did you have that light bulb moment where it was like, “I like the sales?” There is that human dynamic I see in there, being able to read people, work with people and build relationships. When did it turn for you where it is like, “I need to make a shift?” What was that about for you?

It happened in two different ways. The light bulb went off years ago, George. The opportunity for me to go out on my own happened more recently, but it occurred to me years ago when I was doing my sales, and I was getting phone calls from staffing companies to post and to do the same things that their clients were doing. They would turn around and do the same thing, but they have a different approach. I would consult them as if I were consulting a Fortune 500 company.

Careerbuilder, Monster and HotJobs would have separate divisions that only catered to staffing companies, whether you were a boutique firm, a one-man shop or manpower. They had a specific unit that supported efforts by these staffing companies to attract talent using their platform. That light bulb went off on me, frankly, quite early.

There was a company here in Cincinnati. At one time, it was one of the fastest-growing It companies in the country. They were the fastest-growing company on the NASDAQ called Pomeroy IT Solutions, and part of their company, they had an IT staffing division. That was one of my clients where I served them as an enterprise organization, but I would also help their staffing division and consult with them.

Most that settled with me and percolated with me for quite some time. I will say that the light bulb went off years ago and taking that into consideration provided me with the confidence to delve into this. I had helped staffing companies before when they had pains with this specific role or industry or they wanted to create more pipelines, one way or the other. They would come to me and ask for my advice, and they would go back to the client and share what I had consulted on them with.

I have been in the space a long time. There is some meat. I want to talk about the diversity issues because I have some pretty strong views on those and there is a lot to talk about. If you were to look back on those early days when you were helping people, this might be a bit of a hard question. You may need some time to think about it, but what were they getting wrong? Do you still see some of those tendencies or that mindset now about how people view talent and go after it?

There are some nuances between when I started and what I see now. Let me start with what they were doing right. One of the things that they were doing right as a whole is that when you went into an organization and talked to them, there was no amount of money or no limitation of what they would invest to attract people.

If they thought postings worked, they would post on CareerBuilder, Monster, HotJobs and anywhere else to make sure that they got all the candidates that they needed, wanted, and created that pipeline. Nowadays are a little different. You are trying to have more of a magic bullet-type approach. Let’s put all of our efforts in one bucket and forget about the other areas. Let’s be precise rather than trying to cover as much space.

Resistance always comes from uncertainty and the fear of adopting something new. Learn how to be open to new things. Click To Tweet

There used to be an approach where they would try to consider how many duplicate replications of candidates they used to get. There is no more talk of that because they are trying this magic bullet approach, but what is happening is they are missing out on many other potential candidates. That makes diversity even more important because people have different experiences and part of their experience is they go about things differently. There are a lot of people out there that never take themselves to a job board. Their online experiences are different than other people’s online experiences.

They go, network, connect and express interest in other places where other people might go to one single place to express interest in a job or search for a job all the time. It becomes even more important. The second thing I would say that they were getting wrong is the technology was still pretty new. At that time, not everybody had a computer at home. A lot of TA leaders did not think that the internet was here to stay. It sounds crazy, but it is true. There was a lot of resistance to that.

When we were younger, the things that we thought and now we realized how shortsighted we were.

The resistance was great, so much that there was a segment of our corporate leaders that were covering their tails and putting a little bit of investment into the internet in case they were wrong, but there was not a full commitment. I drove to Columbus to meet with the client. I forget exactly what happened, but I may have had another appointment with another client that day. Whatever it was, it took me to the library because I had to go to the library, settle in there and maybe catch up on some work. Rather than wait in a parking lot when it was blazing hot out, I sit in the library to catch up on some work, maybe read a book or whatever.

On this particular day, I was there, and there were people standing in line with their resumés waiting to get a computer so they could download their resumés. I was listening to all these conversations. They were going up to the librarian, asking how they could scan their floppy disk or how they could transmit this. The next meeting came and they heard my pitch, but they resisted. They were like, “I don’t think people are going on the internet, or they are going to go onto CareerBuilder to apply for a job. We don’t want to do it.”

I told them, “I came from the library and you are wrong. Do me a favor, do yourself a favor, go to the library and watch what is happening.” I shared my story with them two days later, we were able to sign an agreement and get them on board. That resistance there seems silly. I have seen this happen with technology on a whole bunch of different levels, which is a whole different conversation. I think a lot of that resistance also has to do not with uncertainty but with adopting something new. That adoption to bring in a CareerBuilder or a firm to help you with your recruiting or maybe consult, all those things, you have to adopt that, bring it in and be open to it. A lot of that resistance has to do with that as well.

You and I grew up in an age where there wasn’t LinkedIn. You were faxing, connecting and doing a lot of these things. To your point, people did not want to adopt those technologies. It is interesting to me because I have been the head of talent acquisition for a number of companies. The pendulum swung so far on the other side that there is no shortage of apps, software programs, new applicant tracking systems, CRMs or things that will create these better talent pools, the AI.

I remember my last gig as the VP of talent acquisition and I’m merely sorting through and making sense of the options. Even before you got the cost, it is a million miles away from where you and I started. It is a completely opposite perspective. Now it is like, how do you sort through and go, “It’s worth my time to look at this. It’s worth the ROI.” People are developing apps fast, but you and I could probably go down a bad rabbit hole with that.

I wanted to ask you because you eventually transitioned into diversity. I don’t know that it is a bias more than a definition or a description of the context of my world. I grew up in the military. To pay for my education, I enlisted and I became an officer. We had one African-American kid in a graduating class of 600 in my high school. I didn’t know anything. When I went into the military, it was what shaped me. What we cared about was, is the person to your left, right, front and back, do they have your back? Do they shoot straight? Are they good a person? Diversity as an issue has never ever entered my mind.

Me transitioning into talent acquisition, I was always like, “I want to know if they are a good person and if they shoot straight. I want to accomplish the mission and do all of those things.” That doesn’t undo people that didn’t have my background. I came to learn that quickly. No matter what I did, it does not undo the other people who are making hiring decisions.

In the last several years, you have seen this strong, heavy and focused drive. If you don’t have a dedicated, committed, well-funded diversity program or part of your human capital function, you are way behind the times. How did you make the jump from simple talent to, “I can make a bigger impact here, educating, impacting companies by teaching them about diversity, equity, inclusion and all the things to come with that.” What was it about you that said, “I’ve got to go do this because this is a value to me and everybody?”

George, similar to you on the other side, I have been that person where I was the one sticking out in the room. When we lived in New York, my neighborhood was like United Nations. Every house had a story in a country of origin or a different background. We would all come out in the street. We played, went back home and did it all over again the next day, and then we would go to school. Everybody had different backgrounds as well. We were all different and then going to the Midwest, things weren’t quite the same. It was Black or White.

I got you. You were about to say it was a little different. If you uttered those words, I was going to challenge you.

If anyone comes in and says they're going to solve all your problems, run for the hills. Because humans and human capital are ever-changing. Click To Tweet

That has always been part of me, and to your question, how did I get into diversity? I tell the story, which I have shared often. My manager at the time, whose name is Steve Million. I walked out of a meeting with him and he is this quiet genius. He is a bit unassuming, but this guy is sharp. I always, even to this day, value his opinion on things.

We walked out of this meeting and before we got to the car, he was like, “You are the only one in the office that ever talks about diversity.” I looked at him because I was the only person of color to my knowledge in the entire building, let alone our office. I looked at him and talked. He said to me that based on my knowledge and enthusiasm, he wanted me to take on the role of being the diversity leader and diversity consultant for our region.

Overnight, I went from handling my book of business to being involved in the whole office’s book of business. Any client, government agency, meeting that involved diversity would come to me and I would join them on those calls. If there was any research going on, there were a lot of things going on with OFCCP at the time.

I suffered PTSD from OFCCP. I’m not even allowed to talk to auditors. I got into a pissing contest with an auditor from OFCCP.

I wish we would have known each other. I would have helped you.

The only thing you could have helped me with was bail money because I told the guy, “The only thing beating you to the hospital is the headlights of the ambulance. Your ass is riding it.” I’m going to tell the story. I had created a veterans program at a consulting firm and it was the first of its kind. They come in and they do the OFCCP audit. I do not want to certainly knock an entire government function, but he was an auditor. He had a clip-on tie. I put on my best show. I said, “Here is what we are doing. We are helping veterans. We are bringing them into corporations where they would not previously have had a shot or been recognized. We are doing boot camps to assimilate them. We have got these employee resource groups.”

At the time, he said, “How come you are not hiring wounded veterans?” I said, “We have.” He says, “I want to know how many wounded or disabled veterans you are covering in your talent pool.” We can’t ask. It was even more strict then about asking for anybody’s disability. Now you ask, “Do you need any accommodation?” He said, “You are not doing enough.” I said, “I started this program five months ago and I have hired 250 veterans that would not have had opportunities in a Big 5 consulting firm. We are finding our way.” He says, “I have to markdown fail on this part.” I said, “If you write fail on that after all we have done, they are going to kill the program and no vets are going to get hired here.”

I said, “How about you help me do this better.” He was a complete ass. I said, “You need to take your little clipboard. You need to walk your happy ass away. You and I are not going to get along.” When you are doing something right and doing something for the right reasons, with great results, I had a great tip that somebody gave me, which is, “Find a way to make it better. Whatever your suggestions are, add to it. Make it more powerful.” This guy was the exact opposite. After that, my managing director said, “George, you are no longer allowed. When OFCCP is in the building, you will be taking 0:23:35.”

I was lucky enough, George, because when I used to talk to clients and mention diversity, it was a no-brainer for me. If CareerBuilder had their platform and was as successful as it was, they had a second component that you could add to what you were already doing or sell in addition to. I told you that companies used to spend whatever they could to get as many people into their pipeline as possible. The company that is providing you with all this traffic understands that there is another pipeline that they can tap into on your behalf. Where I came from, I’m wanting do the best for my clients and understand the opportunity out there. Why leave many potential candidates on the table?

When I became that, my OFCCP story, I don’t want you to be jealous, but it was a little bit different because your guy sounds like he didn’t know what he was doing. When I recall OFCCP in ‘06, they were trying to figure out the internet and resumé. They did not know what those things meant. They were trying to figure it out.

One day, I was lucky. I remember this guy’s name. I don’t know how I still remember it. His name was Mr. Dave Hess with the Department of Justice and OFCCP. I would talk to him at least maybe 4 or 5 times a week, if not 10 or 15. From this span of time, several months, we got to know each other well, but he was nice.

When he did not know the answer to something or there was any confusion or a gray area, he would go get clarification for me. Whatever would come up, I would reach out to him for a client, whether it was for our team to know how to respond to a question or if there was a notice that came out like, “What did that mean?” He was phenomenal. This was several years from now. In all that time, I feel lucky that I was able to tap into him. He was to somebody who was a great resource for a time.

I always want to be cognizant of time, but we are going to close that. I want you to tell everybody what you are doing now and how you can help move the talent needle forward. What were people getting wrong in the early stages? Where do you think we need help when it comes to the diversity issue? When I was the Head of TA, I had two of them committed.

The biggest difference between companies who are successful with diversity versus those who aren't is their commitment to it. Click To Tweet

One person was a consultant and she was genius and insightful. She had this gift about how to anchor concepts. She was talking about diversity and was confident that whatever topic she was speaking about, she could anchor that concept so that it would always be remembered in people’s minds. The other joker that I had, it was nothing about numbers. It was that everything we were doing was broken, “I’m here to save you.” He was not a team player. He didn’t fit.

What are the things that we need to be doing better or some ideas to get better when it comes to diversity, equity and inclusion because it is a critical part? The last comment is, I have always thought, the famous patent quote, we have said it on here a bunch of times, which is, “If everybody is thinking alike, nobody is thinking.” Thought leadership and thought diversity, tell us from your viewpoint, what were we getting wrong? What are we improving on? Where should we be going?

I don’t think a lot has changed what we are getting wrong, George. Let me start off by the first thing, that consultant that came in or the new person. I would like to think that I’m able to solve a lot of my client’s problems who come in and potentially let them sleep better at night. Through these years, I have figured out and cautioned.

If myself or anyone else comes in and says that we are going to solve all your problems and do it all in 30 days, head for the hills because humans and human capital is ever-changing. If we can help you create a strategy to help react and pivot quicker, that is great, but to solve all your problems is a leap that we are never going to get there. The better we get, the more we will still have to do.

What you said reminded me of a story that I heard. We were talking to someone in regards to investing in stocks. The person that we were trying to talk into investing his money told us the story of how his kids, who are grown kids, talked him into investing some money. He begrudgingly invested a few hundred dollars and the stocks went down 50%. He swore never to invest in stocks ever again.

How can you say that if you are trying to get to retirement age? Unless somebody comes out with like the tip of the century, you need to diversify your investments and plan for retirement in a certain way. It is a commitment. That is what I think is the biggest difference between the companies that are successful with diversity versus those that are not. The ones that are struggling and not maybe doing it the way that they should do it.

I was with GE and when Jack Welch was there and even now, the foundation of all they do, the reason why they have been around for so long is their commitment to diversity. You look at Apple, Walmart, all these others, whether it is Silicon Valley or whatnot, these companies that continue to grow and flourish, they understand that diversity is an integral part. Is it perfect? No, but they are continuing to make whatever strides they need to make improvements and to do whatever they need.

As far as talent acquisition is concerned, George, this commitment is truly going to separate companies even further as we move on. With the talent pool being small or shrinking, if you do not have a diversity strategy, you are pretty much cutting off 40% of the talent pool from your potential pipeline. How many companies can truly afford to ignore 40% of your talent pool?

As we continue to move forward, there is going to be that impending time where the cumulative number of diverse people, those with disabilities, cultural backgrounds, etc., those numbers are going to exceed those that do not fall under diversity. When we get there, you are putting yourself behind the eight ball if you do not have a strategy. To have that strategy is not where you stop. You need to be committed and have that commitment moving forward after that.

I’m always careful because the people we have had on here, including you, are easy to get into the mechanics and the weed down acquisition. If you were to be speaking to what level one C-suite and level two, what are your best three tips for making sure that you drive a commitment to diversity, but you create a culture of diversity and diversity of thought experiences, abilities and perspectives? What are the top three things that, when you consult, you want to anchor into people?

I have got a lot this say to all those things, but I try to focus on my expertise, and that is talent, attracting talent and recruiting talent. The first thing that you need to do is define what diversity means to your organization. I can’t tell you how many times I have been in a room or Zoom, and I tell companies that. The individuals either roll their eyes or say, “Diversity is diversity.” I’m like, “That is great. Here is an example. Are you here to tell me that Bank of America’s definition of diversity is the same definition as Limited Brand’s definition of diversity?”

Limited Brands in Columbus, Ohio, is 92% female versus another company that is probably the opposite. They are probably 80% to 85% male. We need to define what diversity means to each organization. Not only will it be different, for each, sure there will be similarities or you can find an organization out of all the companies that marry each other. Not only are you going to have a different definition, but you might have differences within your company in different departments and different locations.

We want to have racial choices or definitions, socioeconomic, people with disabilities, our friends in LGBTQ, active military veterans, and then their family members, and the list goes on. What else is there out there that I have not even known or that can be added to that diversity conversation? Define and get into all the consultant’s speak. You can’t even measure success until you define what you are trying to do.

If you don't have a diversity strategy, you are cutting off 40% of the talent pool from your potential pipeline. Click To Tweet

The second is some low-hanging opportunities. Whatever you are doing, try to talk about what you can do differently. If you have gone fishing and fish for catfish, but all of a sudden, you want bass and you are trying to go to that same pond to find some bass, find some other water. Let’s do something different. Think how simple that can possibly be, but we talked about the resistance to adopting something new. Adopting technology and adopting another resource. All those things are in play, but that could be something that you could do without me coming in to tell you what to do. I like those as a great start.

Our educational system is the greatest in the world. I love to talk about HBCUs and there is probably one close to you somewhere. Not HBCUs, but there are still other colleges, universities or community colleges that have affiliations with other groups that you can tap into. Not only can you tap into, but if you have any questions, any desires to learn other new resources or get some feedback and advice, I will bet my right arm that they would be willing to give you some advice and some insight on what they think they can get you off the ground. Maybe give you a little bit different perspective.

I want to closeout and there are two questions. They are pretty easy. The first one is, you mentioned earlier, you broke into your own business. What is it you are doing now? What are you helping companies do?

I started my company HamiltonDemo with my business partner. We do an executive search, professional placement, any recruiting projects in consulting, and truly George, we have done everything from hourly, all the way to the boardroom, both for-profit and nonprofit. I do a lot of nonprofit work here in Cincinnati. I have sat on several boards over the past several years. It is a work of joy to help out the nonprofits as well as other for-profit organizations.

I will tell you that when we started with my network of enterprise contacts, those Fortune 500 and Fortune 1000 companies, I thought we would do most of our business through them, but it has been a pleasant surprise to see how we have been able to serve small and medium-size businesses too. We are the full gamut, and we have some phenomenal strategic partners that we work with.

If there is ever a need to bring in some other knowledge from somewhere else, we have got that already lined up where there are organizations and strategic partners that can help us out. We collaborate with quite a few organizations. You can find us at HamiltonDemo.com. My phone number and email are on the site. I’m always happy to answer any questions. We welcome any inquiries. If you have any questions, I’m happy to chat and see what comes of it. George, if you had told me that there was going to be a pandemic, I may have held off, but it has still been a phenomenal ride. We have enjoyed it. We are looking forward to continuing our growth.

I’m going to give you the question to close out and I do not send this in advance. You’ve had a great career from immigrating from Haiti, New York, Ohio and I certainly do not ask people their ages, but you have been on the enterprise side. You are now running your own business. If you were to go back and tell your 20, 21, 22-year-old self, 2 or 3 pieces of advice that would have made your career easier, better, smoother and more successful, what are the things that you would go back and tell your younger self?

I hope my father is not going to read this because one of the things would be that I would have listened to my parents more. My parents were hardworking people. They did well. As with any other teenager in my early twenties, I thought I knew it all. I probably would have listened to them more is number one. Number two, I would have sought out more mentorship and coaching. When I look back, I have had the opportunity to come across some great leaders and some people that took me under their wing. If I would have done that or sought that out after high school or while in college, it is the sense of abundance and the world is my oyster.

When you are young, you don’t know what is ahead of you. If I had that type of a little bit more guidance and coaching, things could have accelerated for me and others. I look at some of my friends and other classmates who had some of that and they were struggling with it at first, but it paid off for them. We did not understand that it was coaching or mentorship back then, but I would have done that. I have had such a great career in my experiences. If I could have understood that being in business for myself is where my sweets spot was, learning to accelerate my learning and my knowledge would have been greatly beneficial so I could have gotten here.

I can’t thank you enough for coming to the show.

George, you will bleep out the part that I said, “I would listen to my parents more.” I do not want my dad to hold that over my head.

I was giving a speech in Vegas and I said something to the effect of, “When I was a kid, my dad was a moron.” Now that I’m a dad and now our readers know my daughter has given me my first grandson, I realized how wise my old man was. Somebody pointed it out and I said, “Why did I say something like that?” I was like, “That proves I should have been reading and listening more in high school.” That is something I would add to my list.

I want to give our parents due credit. DNA, it’s the lessons. They gave me those lessons, but I think your point is that it’s always better that we recognize those lessons or use those good words as early as we can that it’s never too late to put those lessons into use. I’ve learned and delivered them to my kids. I wish you the greatest success, abundance and joy in all you are doing and, more than anything else, impacting.

Stop trying to go to the same pond to find some different fish. Don't be afraid to try something different. Click To Tweet

You made an excellent point, but I’m going to say it in a different way. There are 40% of the population that you may not be reaching. When it comes to diversity and talent, people forget your customer base, your consumer base, the people that you work with that you interact with, your vendors, clients, customers, the general public, that is all changing. Your lack of ability to reflect back that you are part of that same community, you have the thought and experiences to the groups you are selling and marketing to. If you do not have that, you are at a distinct disadvantage from a talent perspective.

You develop software, product, service and a restaurant. If you do not have people are thinking, “The best idea wins. What do we put in here?” You are behind the power curve. Your words of advice and wisdom are immensely helpful. I’m grateful. I think we probably ought to do this again and get into the mechanics of diversity.

I would love to.

We will do that. Thank you for being on and being a great guest and tolerating my off-the-cuff question methodology.

It was a pleasure. I look forward to doing it again.

Have a good one and we will talk again soon. We are out.


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